Send in the army?

Yesterday I mentioned a discussion I had with John Redwood, Conservative – Wokingham, a leading “eurosceptic”; or so we are led to believe.

I thought I would post two screenshots of the discussion:

Redwood 1That brought forth the following:

Redwood 2Readers may accuse me of argumentativeness; and that my “attack” on John Redwood is unfair – but consider:

Here we have a Member of Parliament deliberately promoting a course of action which is completely pointless and would not achieve the desired result; who deigns not to engage with a member of the electorate and thus chooses to ignore that which is put to him by way of counter argument; who has prattled on in the past repeating the need for Cameron’s renegotiation meme; and is reduced to making utterly ridiculous comments about armies; a statement that beggars belief.

Members of Parliament are supposed to “guide” public opinion with their “wisdom” and in using said wisdom, be the guardians of our nation while also being a servant of the people. In this regard John Redwood stands guilty of dereliction of duty and, dare one say, political illiteracy. Not that Redwood is alone, he most definitely is not – unfortunately space does not permit the listing of all those like him.

Not that that that problem is limited to national governance, local governance is also open to the same charge of dereliction of duty, especially where political illiteracy is concerned. I posted about this problem with our system of democracy yesterday, a post which unfortunately does not seem to have attracted much attention.

Far be it for me to speak for others, suffice it to say that I believe those of us who take an interest in politics per se are totally frustrated with those who are supposed to guide us, but do not; who are supposed to have wisdom, but have not; who are supposed to be the guardians of our nation, but are not; and who are supposed to be the servants of the people, but most definitely are not.

So now can we have a serious debate in this country about our system of democracy – please?

Afterthought: If nothing else shows what a farce is our system of democracy then it must be that Owen Paterson has to admit that he is unable to do what he would like to do because of our subservience to Brussels!


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26 Responses

  1. Anoneumouse says:

    Article 27 of the Vienna Convention.

    “A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty”.

    • david says:

      Thanks for bringing that up. I had looked at the Vienna Conventio0n and seen that article, but as I say thanks for bringing it to the attention of readers.

  2. Boudicca says:

    WfW. The public are only just waking up to the fact that LibLabCON are virtually powerless to govern the country, now that they have ceded control to the EU in about 80% of policy areas.

    Anger is only just starting to build into a transfer of votes to UKIP. You may not think a lot of UKIP, but they are getting the message out there that the EU is effectively our government now are people are starting to take notice.

    Trying to get confused, downtrodden, apathetic and let’s face it, not very intelligent people, to start debating our national system of governance is doomed to failure.

    Before we can do that, we’ve got to break the cosy CONsensus that is LibLabCON – frontmen for The British Establishment, the EU and the Bilderbergers.

    • david says:

      I take on board all that you say and about Ukip at the moment being the only viable alternative (and hey I have not said a bad word about them for some days now and even praised NF only yesterday) but HA and the EU and our system of democracy are all bound up together. As I have said previously I do not see the logic of bringing powers back from one set of dictators only to hand them to another set.

  3. WfW

    The Lords committee on our constitution (point .93)

    “The UK Parliament could repeal the European Communities Act 1972 at any time. The consequence of such repeal is that the United Kingdom would not be able to comply with its international and EU obligations and would have to withdraw from the European Union. The Lisbon Treaty does not change that and indeed for the first time includes a provision explicitly confirming Member States’ right to withdraw from the European Union”

    In other words we have to invoke A50, because repealing the ECA alone doesn’t mean withdrawal and would breach our international obligations.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldconst/84/8405.htm

  4. ELF says:

    Given that Redwood accepts Art 50 is a possible route, I’m curious as to whis reasons for considering ECA repeal the better option ?

  5. Peter Whale says:

    I wish you well with the “Harrowgate Agenda” but think that the only real option, although not ideal is UKIP. The only peaceful way is through the establishment. Violent revolution I would not wish upon us and non-violent will not work. So although I applaud your Agenda I think in the meantime as a backstop you should promote UKIP with all its failings.

    • Nick says:

      Peter, there are a group of people for whom peaceful negotiation is irrelevant, no, worse, an annoyance. They actively ignore us. OUr voices, to them, our dignity, our rights mean nothing against their intent.

      The only way they can be made to listen is with a fist to the face and a knife to the throat. I’m sorry to be blunt, but the only way Cameron, Clegg and the other one will be made to do as we tell them is under threat. They have deliberately removed every other option to peaceful alternative.

      They also have access to the media and are unapolgetic abusers of power and systems. They are not deserving of our respect and they are not ‘honourable men’ willing to discuss the problems they have created. They are arrogant, cruel, evil, self important egoists. If we had control over our money we would be able to do what we wished and they would have to listen but, as the IHT farce shows, we do not. Thus force is our only alternative. David and Dr Richard North, the Boiling Frog are all brilliant, decent chaps but the Harrogate agenda will never, ever be allowed. Sometimes, sadly, horribly, you have to fight for what you want. Unlike the political class though, I’ll regret my actions. They don’t, and never will.

    • david says:

      See comment to Boudicca

  6. james Higham says:

    That would have been fascinating, David. wish I’d been there or a fly on the wall.

  7. graham wood says:

    David. Why did you delete my post commenting on this thread?

  8. cosmic says:

    It’s not just a question of EU law having force in the UK, it also governs our dealings with other countries, most of them outside the UK. It’s this question of future relations with the rest of the world which is not addressed by just repealing the ECA.

    In practical terms there would anyway need to be some sort of holding act to replace the ECA, so that the consequences of it could be unravelled in an orderly way.

    Theoretically we could just repeal the ECA and declare UDI. Practically, the consequences would be horrific.

    Thinking back to the 16th century, the Catholic church in England carried on much as before, except with Henry VIII as the head. He stopped or pocketed revenues sent to Rome and cashed in the bits it suited him to do so. It wasn’t a Protestant rejection of Rome, that came later.

  9. kenomeat says:

    David, if I may first say that Boudicca and TBF have, as usual, made excellent points but I think Peter Whale has hit the nail on the head. UKIP is all we have at the moment unless you think the HA will attract as much attention over the coming months.
    Next, you seem to be engaging in in-fighting again. For all his faults (and being a Tory is one of them) John Redwood is one of the good guys. By all means take him to task when he makes erroneous comments but his remark about the army was clearly made tongue in cheek. Redwood, along with Davis, Carswell and Hannan are on our side and I hope that one day they will defect to UKIP. The movement needs unity. Let’s save our weapons for the real enemy.

    • david says:

      It matters not whether his comment was tongue in cheek – it was stupid to have written it.

      With respect if you think or hope that Redwood, Carswell, Hannan et all will join Ukip then you are surely delusional? They have careers….

  10. Nick says:

    I’ve said it before but antagonism, especially toward allies; isnt really going to help.

    Mr Redwood might be misinformed. He might be confused and he might be poorly advised but he is not stupid or being deliberately ignorant. TO say he won’t engage is also unfair. You’re (neither am I) not his constituent so there’s a degree to which he can and cannot act. Now, your man is a Labour stooge and mine is a Labour MP (with a’majority’ of about 5). I would genuinely beg and plead to write to him and ask the question for him to fully investigate if repealing the 1972 act applies.

    Very sincerely, if we tick off our chums we’re not going to get anywhere and we will be trapped in the damned EU forever.

    • david says:

      The fact I am not a constituent is neither here nor there when an MP writes a blog because he/she is addressing the nation and is therefore duty bound to respond to questions and comments.

  11. graham wood says:

    David. Why did you delete my post commenting on this thread?

  12. graham wood says:

    David. Still no reply to my two posts – “Why did you delete my comment on this thread?’
    If you engage in deleting posts of which you may disapprove, except for ‘in extremis’ abuse or ad hominem etc, then you are censoring legitimate opinion expressed in response to an original post, a practice more typical of the MSM.
    This is arbitrary, only closes down proper debate, and annoys posters who eventually leave.
    No self respecting blog should do it, but I will give you one more chance

    • david says:

      Hey steady on – see comment above. I have not deleted any post of yours at any time.

      If I had it would be showing in the comment thread.

      In fact the only comment I have in trash is one from some idiot who threatened to sue me for using the word Dave which he maintains he has copyright for – and that I did about 7 days ago.

  13. graham wood says:

    David. Thanks for your confirmation – no deletion. It appears to have been lost in the nebulous ether. My apologies for assuming you deleted.
    G

    • david says:

      No apology necessary – “wood” that I delete a comment from one of my long-standing readers……… :)

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